Curse

mazza558 · Jun 20, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

I think a good idea would be to try and work together as a community to try and work out the conditions and parameters that loot scaling follows. If we can do that, we can identify what the best situation to farm stuff is.

The following questions probably need answering, and other members can suggest more to be test/answered:

-Is loot scaling affected by what time of day people farm?
-Is loot scaling affected by the amount of other players farming the area? Will secret farming locations give people better drops?
-Does loot scaling gradually decrease as people kill more enemies in the explorable/mission?
-Is loot scaling affected by the speed of using skills and the speed of kills?
-Is loot scaling affected by the type of skills? Do you get more drops if you use attack skills? AoE? Skills that kill one at a time ([sliver armor]) or all at once ([inferno])?
-Is loot scaling reduced if you barely survive with your build, or when you're at full health all the time?
-Do higher level enemies really drop better stuff? Do level 28s beat level 24s in terms of the chance of gold drops?
-Does Hard Mode really make a difference?
-Do locations which require lots of traveling beforehand give you better drops?
-Why are some locations with enemies of the same level still have different quantities of drops?
-Is loot scaling affected by how you use your character? Do characters dedicated to farming get worse drops than general PvE characters?
-Will playing PvP or a long PvE mission improve drops if you then return to farming?
-Does farming on different server matters to loot drops?
-Does favor effect drops in an area that needs favor to go in?

Savio · Jun 20, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Loot scaling means less party members = less total drops. Anything else isn't loot scaling but other loot code.

mazza558 · Jun 20, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Loot scaling means less party members = less total drops. Anything else isn't loot scaling but other loot code.

By loot scaling, I meant any code that alters the amount of drops people get. I should have been more specific.

pumpkin pie · Jun 20, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

one more:

does farming on different server matters to loot drops?

Smurf Minions · Jun 20, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Another:

Does favor effect drops in an area that needs favor to go in?

Fay Vert · Jun 20, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

The problem is that ANet quite simply lied. Loot scaling is not implemented simply on party size. It is implemented on rate of kill.

I can go out solo and get a drop off every mob with some builds and with another build get next to nothing.

And its not just solo. My guild has recently been running Urgoz's Warren to see how fast we can do it, and the faster we do it, the less drops we get. Thats for a full party of 12!

So we can start with the ANet lie. They have repeatedly told us that Lootscaling is working as intended. Well if this is true, then ANet lied about how it works, because it most definately does NOT work how they say.

Oh, and by the way ANet, nice screwed up economy you created. So all that gameplay nerf was for absolutely nothing, the oh so precious GW economy lies in tatters thanks to their stupid intervention.

tormtk · Jun 20, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

This reply is based soley on my opinion and experience
-Is loot scaling affected by what time of day people farm?
Doesnt matter
-Is loot scaling affected by the amount of other players farming the area?
Doesnt matter
-Does loot scaling gradually decrease as people kill more enemies in the explorable/mission? doesnt matter
-Is loot scaling affected by the speed of using skills and the speed of kills?
Yes
-Is loot scaling affected by the type of skills? Do you get more drops if you use attack skills? AoE? Skills that kill one at a time
Yes
-Is loot scaling reduced if you barely survive with your build, or when you're at full health all the time?
Doesnt matter
-Do higher level enemies really drop better stuff? Do level 28s beat level 24s in terms of the chance of gold drops?
Yes
-Does Hard Mode really make a difference?
Yes because of higher level enemies
-Do locations which require lots of traveling beforehand give you better drops?
Doesnt matter
-Why are some locations with enemies of the same level still have different quantities of drops?
Parameters of drops and percentage associated with that
-Is loot scaling affected by how you use your character? Do characters dedicated to farming get worse drops than general PvE characters?
Doesnt matter although some people will probably disagree I think people think this because of expectations. After you do a couple of farming runs that are great all runs after that just dont seem to live up. However my avg numbers are consistent no matter how long i farm.
-Will playing PvP or a long PvE mission improve drops if you then return to farming?
Doesnt matter

You have a good idea here to really get an indept look at loot scaling, however I think it is much more simple. If anet implemented a complex system then its real easier to work around it.

I think enemies have a number of drops( they can drop) and a percentage associated with each drop, things such as: how many others are farming the area, what skill your using, how long you traveled to get there etc dont matter. What does matter is how fast you kill and that is set on a time limit: ie:x amount of enemies killed in y amount of time lowers the the chance of a drop overall. I have seen this to be true, over the course of my experience, and after doing the UW farm for ectos which are not effected by loot scaling (for now) it has just reaffirmed my beliefs.

mazza558 · Jun 20, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

I've added the questions to the list.

It'll be good if people who answer the questions could give some evidence for their thinking.

I'm probably going to begin testing the server question, as I have a suspicion that farming in polish districts will give better drops as there are less people on that server.

Nittle Grasper · Jun 20, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quoted from GWW
"With loot scaling, players receive an amount of normal drops (common and uncommon rarity items, collectable drops, gold, common crafting materials) proportionate to the size of their party as compared to a full party. For example, a solo farmer will on average get the same number of blue weapons as a player in an eight person party. The only items exempt from this rule are:
Skill Tomes
Insight and Passage Scrolls
Dyes
Rare crafting materials
All rare (gold) items
All unique (green) items
Special event items "
it's not a mystery >.>

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10225077 <explains that only what time you enter an area matters for what loot you get.

mazza558 · Jun 20, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nittle Grasper

Quoted from GWW
"With loot scaling, players receive an amount of normal drops (common and uncommon rarity items, collectable drops, gold, common crafting materials) proportionate to the size of their party as compared to a full party. For example, a solo farmer will on average get the same number of blue weapons as a player in an eight person party. The only items exempt from this rule are:
Skill Tomes
Insight and Passage Scrolls
Dyes
Rare crafting materials
All rare (gold) items
All unique (green) items
Special event items "
it's not a mystery >.>

Why do drop levels gradually decay after the 3rd of 4th time of entering an area then?

mazza558 · Jun 20, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nittle Grasper

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10225077 <explains that only what time you enter an area matters for what loot you get.

Didn't notice you added that link. Great info!

Johny bravo · Jun 20, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

I would have to say from experience that time has some effect. I am not sure if it has a direct effect such as at 9:00am you get better drops or an indirect effect at 9:00am there are less people farming in you rarea and therefore you get better drops. I say from experience as when I farm raptors for a 15-30 min prior to work I get about 10 golds, when I farm later on in the day i get significantly less. Maybe its just bad luck but this seem to happen all the time.

Nittle Grasper · Jun 20, 2008, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazza558

Why do drop levels gradually decay after the 3rd of 4th time of entering an area then?

I wanted to find the image to where it says "When you enter an area repeatively then you receive/ worse drops" I forget what it says but basically it's along the lines of that. And that has nothing to do with loot scaling because this has been around since the beginning of the game, or at least sometime around the beginning.

Samurai Goroh · Jun 20, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Basically what it did was give full parties even more of an advantage in farming ontop of the inherit one they already get by having a full party which makes farming easier. Its like paying someone $50 to cut the lawn, if he brings help should his help get paid $50 too? no , that doesnt make sense, if he brings help the advantage he gets is easier work. Would you pay $50x however many people show up to do a $50 job? Of course not, Anet doesnt mind doing it because they do what they want since they make the loot but it does screw over the solo player which is by far the majority.

BlueNovember · Jun 20, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Specualation and rumour!
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10225077
^^

It may seem that time taken to kill mobs has an effect, but the above thread conclusively shows that it does not.

As for mobs dropping _fewer_ (¬_¬) golds after the 3rd/4th farm of a zone, yes, I would agree also, but only from a very limited sample of runs.

imnotyourmother · Jun 20, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

My observations,

On certain days of the week, Tuesdays for example I get more dye to drop. I do not know why. This is also between the hours of 6-8PM. Weird for me.

I am in North American Districts EST.

Also if there is only 1-5 districts in ascalon city - presearing- i get more charr kits- the only gold drop in pre- than I do other wise. I do not know why.

Just for example. Seems weird by maybe if more people are farming I get them less often cause I miss my window of oppertunity?

Weird. Sorry for the spelling errors.

Darksun · Jun 20, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

The problem is that ANet quite simply lied. Loot scaling is not implemented simply on party size. It is implemented on rate of kill.

Actually, you're quite simply WRONG.
That's not loot scaling. It's the basic drop code that's always been there. What Anet said was true, loot scaling (which was implemented after NF came out) is effected by what they said it was effected by.

FoxBat · Jun 20, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

What Anet said was true, loot scaling (which was implemented after NF came out) is effected by what they said it was effected by.

I'm not disputing whether party size is a factor (still needs research), but LS based on kill speed definitely applies in full-henchmen parties. That's quite different than what was implied.

Gaile called kill-speed throttling the "elite farmer filtering" code.

People posting their anecdotal experience won't mean much. You need to record exactly the frequency of scaled drops you are getting, in what area, with what build, how many henchy/heros around, and compare notes.

The Meth · Jun 20, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

You know, I find that if I /clap twice and then /jump right next to the area portal before entering into explorable areas I get approximately 1.6 more gold items per run. Anyone who isn't providing a tested environment to backup their superstitions won't help this discussion.

**cosyfiep** · Jun 20, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

and here is another one:
-is it affected by whether or not you have a 'blessing' (by which I mean you get ss points for undead, lb points for margonites etc).....

I add this because I have noticed that when I do the ss/lb run outside of remains that I seem to NOT get drops from things I have a 'blessing' to kill---like the margonites and undead, while I DO get drops from the mandragors (every time!--usually money, but its a drop)....it seems strange (guess I should go out without the blessing and see if the drops improve---).

[I have also noticed that rate of the drops in prophecies is better than those in either nf or factions...while eye drops are almost nil---kill 30 things before the first drop sometimes].